Ni Kweli Binadamu wa Kwanza alipatikana Olduvai Gorge?

[Nzokanhyilu]

Hivi nikikaa sana ulaya, pamoja na baridi hii, nitakuwa mzungu?

 

[Pundit]

Evolution is not a living science! It is crap expounded by realists! And agin, anthropologists use scientific methods/or so they claim, to reach their findings.

Evolution is not a living science! It is crap expounded by realists!

You are right, if you examine crap and expound it with the eyes of a realist you will see evolving and evolved microorganisms.

So you just made my point, evolution is everywhere, even in your crap.

On the other hand the world being 6,000 years old is totally not crap!

 

[Pundit]

Hivi nikikaa sana ulaya, pamoja na baridi hii, nitakuwa mzungu?

Kaa miaka milioni mia hivi,

We hujiulizi kwa nini watu weusi wanakwiva wakati wa winter na kurudi kuwa weusi sana wakati wa summer? Kwa nini wazungu wana tan in the summer / hotter climes?

Over a couple million years and the effects compounds to a different color of skin.

 

[Kuhani]

Si kweli...

Kwa nini...?

 

[Nzokanhyilu]

Kaa miaka milioni mia hivi,

We hujiulizi kwa nini watu weusi wanakwiva wakati wa winter na kurudi kuwa weusi sana wakati wa summer? Kwa nini wazungu wana tan in the summer / hotter climes?

Over a couple million years and the effects compounds to a different color of skin.

But average living age huku ni 80 hadi 100. Sasa miaka milioni nitafikishaje?

 

[Peasant]

Evolution takes places at a very slow pace, so it is not true that change in human beings (Homo Sapiens Sapiens) is not taking place.

A prime example of this is the slowly disappearing appendix



So change is taking place, albeit slow.



Because different people, inhabiting different places, under different conditions evolve differently.The black pigmentation (melonin) in Africans skin helps Africans and other people inhabiting equatorial regions of the earth to protect themselves against skin cancer, natural selection made sure only the ones who can survive under the harsh direct sunlight did so.The Northern Europeans do not need this and that is why they are not dark pigmented.



White people are hairly to adapt to the European cold climes. The one who did not have enough hair died of cold, leaving only the ones with enough hair, who mated to produce hairy offspring.

So does religion offer better answers?

Why and how those black people born (slave lines especially, who have been there for century now) in Northern Europe/America come to terms with the cold conditions without hairy body?

 

[Jobo]

You are right, if you examine crap and expound it with the eyes of a realist you will see evolving and evolved microorganisms.

So you just made my point, evolution is everywhere, even in your crap.

On the other hand the world being 6,000 years old is totally not crap!

That is why I said it is the work of a Deity! What you think should be mde in a hundred million years, God makes it in 6 days! Read the book of genesi and then go back to history of your community! They will all come down to one conclusion, there are supernatural powers that control your movements, akili and everything. Have you ever wondered why there are no people in transition to another stage! or why the primates that are closely associated with us do not show like they will be human in a few years to come! Or should we believe that evolution existed and will exist in the future but does not exist now?????

 

[Peasant]

White people are hairly to adapt to the European cold climes. The one who did not have enough hair died of cold, leaving only the ones with enough hair, who mated to produce hairy offspring.

So does religion offer better answers?

I think it does! The story about colour emanates from the Sons of Noah! This was just after the great floods that wiped the human race except for Noah and his family![/QUOTE]


I'm a biologist Christian and believe in Bible, but I normally fail to understand why do we differ in colour if we are coming from a single source?! And why do these differences are geographically associated? I'm trying to be curious coz I sometimes find myself in the middle of two opposite understanding and belief!

 

[Jobo]

I think it does! The story about colour emanates from the Sons of Noah! This was just after the great floods that wiped the human race except for Noah and his family![/QUOTE]


I'm a biologist Christian and believe in Bible, but I normally fail to understand why do we differ in colour if we are coming from a single source?! And why do these differences are geographically associated? I'm trying to be curious coz I sometimes find myself in the middle of two opposite understanding and belief!

Then you need to intensify your faith and beliee in evolution even less coz no explanation given besides tht of the bible makes any sense!

 

[Pundit]

But average living age huku ni 80 hadi 100. Sasa miaka milioni nitafikishaje?

Unataka ku-observe continental drift kwa kukaa pwani na kuangalia kama continent lina move (dispute that too).

I already said that evolution is a very slow process.Thats why it takes millions of years and generations to see discernible changes.

 

[Pundit]

Why and how those black people born (slave lines especially, who have been there for century now) in Northern Europe/America come to terms with the cold conditions without hairy body?

Evolution takes place very slowly, by millions of years. You cannot compare millions of years with four hundred years.

 

[Pundit]

That is why I said it is the work of a Deity! What you think should be mde in a hundred million years, God makes it in 6 days! Read the book of genesi and then go back to history of your community! They will all come down to one conclusion, there are supernatural powers that control your movements, akili and everything. Have you ever wondered why there are no people in transition to another stage! or why the primates that are closely associated with us do not show like they will be human in a few years to come! Or should we believe that evolution existed and will exist in the future but does not exist now?????

What makes you think I havent read the bible and the history of my community?

The Old Testament is hardly convincing when it comes to matters such as creation.Not only to me, but to any dogma free half decently educated kid.

 

[Peasant]

Then you need to intensify your faith and beliee in evolution even less coz no explanation given besides tht of the bible makes any sense!

I think what I'm lacking is proper Bible knowledge and NOT faith! However, I would be happy if you explain to me how human races came about from a single parentage. You will be of good help to me if do this.

 

[Peasant]

Evolution takes place very slowly, by millions of years. You cannot compare millions of years with four hundred years.

Well, I do understand that it takes years. But, would you buy into the idea that, based on some phenotypical features black people are evolutionary closer to the apes (ancestors of human being) than the whites? Can that be used to class the white race ahead of black in evolution tree?

 

[Kuhani]

... I normally fail to understand why do we differ in colour if we are coming from a single source?! And why do these differences are geographically associated? I'm trying to be curious coz I sometimes find myself in the middle of two opposite understanding and belief!

Why we differ in color while coming from same source: Si unajua mutation? Mutation ni makosa yanayofanyika randomly DNA inapo gawanyika kutengeneza copy nyingine (niite mtoto hapa). Ile mutation inasababisha DNA mtoto ambayo imetofautiana na DNA mzazi. Ndio unapata rangi nyeupe kutoka nyeusi.

Jiografia inaingiaje: Kama ile ya rangi nyeupe inasaidia wazungu ku survive kwenye baridi basi wao wataendelea kuzaliana, weusi wataendelea kupungua mpaka kizazi chao kitajifia. Na hapo ndio Jiografia inapoingia. Huu uchaguzi wa nani ata survive unatokea wenyewe kiasili, natural selection.

Conundrum yako ya Dini na Sayansi: Hutakiwi kuna na shaka. Hakuna mtafaruku au conflict yeyote. Umesema mwenyeye moja ni "imani," nyingine ni "understanding." Vitu viwili tofauti. Conflict inakuja unapotaka kuanza "kuelewa dini." Au unapotaka kuanza kuanza ku "amini sayansi."

Sayansi haikuombi uiamini. Ipo kama kama ilivyo. Inaweka vielelezo. Kama unaona havi make sense, tunakuomba "toa vya kwako."

Dini nayo haikuombi uielewe. Inakwambia "ni bora wale wanaoamini bila kuthibitisha kuliko wanao amini baada ya kuona vielelezo," na wale wenye imani haba hawataurithi Ufalme wa Baba wa mawinguni. Haisemi mwenye akili ndogo hata karibishwa ahera. Inasema mwenye maswali ya kujifanya kutaka kuelewa au kuuliza mbinguni nani kakujenga, au nani alimrithisha Baba huo ufalme, mdadisi dadisi huyo hana nafasi kwenye himaya ya Baba.

Lakini sio kwamba huyo Baba Mungu ni mjinga ndio maana anataka wajinga. Na wewe sio mjinga, na kumfuata Baba Mungu sio ujinga.

Ila, Baba Mungu amesema yeye ana akili nyingi kupita wewe na mimi tunavyoweza kumuelewa, na tukimuuliza, Baba, "ni Babu gani aliyekurithisha wewe himaya ya Mbinguni," anasema tukianza kuuliza hivyo, tutapasuka vichwa.

Kwa hiyo endelea kusimama imara katika msingi wa imani iliyokuweka huru mpaka siku ya kukutana na Baba, lakini usiache kutafuta uhuru mwingine wa uelewa wa sayansi kwa sababu viwili hivyo havipingani.

Au vyapingana?

Kwa nini?

 

[Jamco_Za]

Jamani Hubble space telescope imeshadhibitisha masuala mengi sana ya kisayansi likiwemo la evolution kwani tayari agent of life zinajulikana what they are doing now ni kudhibitisha transport from where life began kuja duniani na hivi tunavyoongea kuna sayari mpya zimegundulika mbali sana na milk way galaxy ambazo kuna life na evolution inaendelea kutake place wanatafuta udhibitisho wa kupata wanyama kama denosour there.

Ni kweli tunaamini katika dini lakini ukichunguza sana kwenye dini then utajiunga na wana sayansi kwani kwenye dini kuna dots nyingi aziconect na kuacha maswali mengi sana wakati sayansi inajitahidi kuziba mianya iliyo wazi kudhibitisha theory zao.

Mfano ukichunguza kabila moja la mayans walioishi miaka 6000 kabla ya christo utagundua kuwa walikuwa na mtume aliyezaliwa bila kuwa na baba na akapotea baharini na hakurudi tena bali kabira lilisambaratishwa na wazungu kwa uroho wa dhahabu wakati wakiendelea kumsubiri mtume wao harudi kuja kuhukumu watu wake.

Kwenye mapango ya wamisri wataalamu wamegundua kuwa miungu wa wamisri Mungu Kondoo na Mungu mbwa mwitu walizaliwa bila kuwa na baba na mama yao alikuwa bikra na hii ilikuwa miaka 3000 kabla ya christo.

Then kwa kadri tunavyoendelea kusoma zaidi utagundua hata story za vitabu vya dini sayansi inadhibitisha kuwa zilitokea lakini kuna sababu za kisansi za kutokea na sio maajabu kama vitabu vinavyosema, Mfano mafuliko ya noah, sayansi inakubaliana na dini yalitokea kweli lakini yalitokana na Sunami and nothing else na ndo maana utakuta kwenye vitabu vya dini hadi makabila ya zamani yota yana mafuriko hayo na sio noah pekee na familia yake walipona bali hata makabila mengine yalipona ndo maana hiyo story hiko ulimwengu mzima kwenye makabila ya zamani.

Sodoma na Gomora it was just tetemeko la ardhi yanaliyosababishwa na magima kwenye core ya dunia ikisaidiwa na velocano na ndo maana wanasema mungu aliwatupia mapande ya moto na kugeuza ardhi ya bchini kuwa juu. comet ikitua kwenye dunia inageuza ardhi ya juu inakuja chini na ya chini inakuja juu, also this was a passible cause.

Hubble space station imegundua sehemu inayoitwa star formation zone ambako nyota zinakozaliwa, imeweza kugundua pia age ya nyota zote na pia galaxy mpya zinazotengenezwa, imegundua pia jinsi ambavyo nyota zinavyokufa kwa wakati wake au kuuwawa na black hole kabla ya wakati wake, imegundua sayari ambazo ziko mbali sana na galaxy ya milkway kiasi ambacho mwanga wa galaxy ukija kufika duniani unatumia miaka milioni 13.

By the way sasa hivi wanategemea au wameshatuma watu wa kuifanyia upgrade mwaka huu kabla ya kuitelekeza ifikapo mwaka 2013 kwani kutakuwa na space station mpya ambayo itaweza kuona hata shilingi iliyoko kwenye sayari ya galaxy ya mbali zaidi kuliko zote.

Kumbukeni kuwa galileo alitengwa na jamii ikiongozwa na kanisa kwa kusema kuwa dunia inazunguka jua na hakuna mbigu huko juu, lakini miaka karibu 2000 baada ya kifo chake sasa tunasherekea na kumsifia kuwa ni baba wa elimu ya anga.

 

[Peasant]

Why we differ in color while coming from same source: Si unajua mutation? Mutation ni makosa yanayofanyika randomly DNA inapo gawanyika kutengeneza copy nyingine (niite mtoto hapa). Ile mutation inasababisha DNA mtoto ambayo imetofautiana na DNA mzazi. Ndio unapata rangi nyeupe kutoka nyeusi.

Jiografia inaingiaje: Kama ile ya rangi nyeupe inasaidia wazungu ku survive kwenye baridi basi wao wataendelea kuzaliana, weusi wataendelea kupungua mpaka kizazi chao kitajifia. Na hapo ndio Jiografia inapoingia. Huu uchaguzi wa nani ata survive unatokea wenyewe kiasili, natural selection.

Conundrum yako ya Dini na Sayansi: Hutakiwi kuna na shaka. Hakuna mtafaruku au conflict yeyote. Umesema mwenyeye moja ni "imani," nyingine ni "understanding." Vitu viwili tofauti. Conflict inakuja unapotaka kuanza "kuelewa dini." Au unapotaka kuanza kuanza ku "amini sayansi."

Sayansi haikuombi uiamini. Ipo kama kama ilivyo. Inaweka vielelezo. Kama unaona havi make sense, tunakuomba "toa vya kwako."

Dini nayo haikuombi uielewe. Inakwambia "ni bora wale wanaoamini bila kuthibitisha kuliko wanao amini baada ya kuona vielelezo," na wale wenye imani haba hawataurithi Ufalme wa Baba wa mawinguni. Haisemi mwenye akili ndogo hata karibishwa ahera. Inasema mwenye maswali ya kujifanya kutaka kuelewa au kuuliza mbinguni nani kakujenga, au nani alimrithisha Baba huo ufalme, mdadisi dadisi huyo hana nafasi kwenye himaya ya Baba.

Lakini sio kwamba huyo Baba Mungu ni mjinga ndio maana anataka wajinga. Na wewe sio mjinga, na kumfuata Baba Mungu sio ujinga.

Ila, Baba Mungu amesema yeye ana akili nyingi kupita wewe na mimi tunavyoweza kumuelewa, na tukimuuliza, Baba, "ni Babu gani aliyekurithisha wewe himaya ya Mbinguni," anasema tukianza kuuliza hivyo, tutapasuka vichwa.

Kwa hiyo endelea kusimama imara katika msingi wa imani itakayo iliyokuweka huru mpaka siku ya kukutana na Baba, lakini usiache kutafuta uhuru mwingine wa uelewa wa sayansi kwa sababu viwili hivyo havipingani.

Au vyapingana?

Kwa nini?

Ninaelewa vizuri sana biological/scientific explanation behind races, all those mutations, SNPs and the like as well as climatic/geographical pressures that can help cause changes in phenotype (not necessarily affecting the genotype). Nilichokuwa natafuta ni maelezo ya kidini zaidi, lakini kwa kuwa umeshanipa somo la namna ya kutenganisha haya mambo mawili nafikiri sina haja tena ya kuuliza zaidi, thnx for that.

 

[Peasant]

sorry kwa kwenda nje ya mada, kuna thread yoyote inaongelea hotuba ya Pinda bungeni leo? Amejibu maswali ya Slaa?

 

[Kuhani]

sorry kwa kwenda nje ya mada, kuna thread yoyote inaongelea hotuba ya Pinda bungeni leo? Amejibu maswali ya Slaa?

Slaa si kamuuliza maswali Mkulo, au?

 

[Pundit]

Jamani Hubble space telescope imeshadhibitisha masuala mengi sana ya kisayansi likiwemo la evolution kwani tayari agent of life zinajulikana what they are doing now ni kudhibitisha transport from where life began kuja duniani na hivi tunavyoongea kuna sayari mpya zimegundulika mbali sana na milk way galaxy ambazo kuna life na evolution inaendelea kutake place wanatafuta udhibitisho wa kupata wanyama kama denosour there.

Ni kweli tunaamini katika dini lakini ukichunguza sana kwenye dini then utajiunga na wana sayansi kwani kwenye dini kuna dots nyingi aziconect na kuacha maswali mengi sana wakati sayansi inajitahidi kuziba mianya iliyo wazi kudhibitisha theory zao.

Mfano ukichunguza kabila moja la mayans walioishi miaka 6000 kabla ya christo utagundua kuwa walikuwa na mtume aliyezaliwa bila kuwa na baba na akapotea baharini na hakurudi tena bali kabira lilisambaratishwa na wazungu kwa uroho wa dhahabu wakati wakiendelea kumsubiri mtume wao harudi kuja kuhukumu watu wake.

Kwenye mapango ya wamisri wataalamu wamegundua kuwa miungu wa wamisri Mungu Kondoo na Mungu mbwa mwitu walizaliwa bila kuwa na baba na mama yao alikuwa bikra na hii ilikuwa miaka 3000 kabla ya christo.

Then kwa kadri tunavyoendelea kusoma zaidi utagundua hata story za vitabu vya dini sayansi inadhibitisha kuwa zilitokea lakini kuna sababu za kisansi za kutokea na sio maajabu kama vitabu vinavyosema, Mfano mafuliko ya noah, sayansi inakubaliana na dini yalitokea kweli lakini yalitokana na Sunami and nothing else na ndo maana utakuta kwenye vitabu vya dini hadi makabila ya zamani yota yana mafuriko hayo na sio noah pekee na familia yake walipona bali hata makabila mengine yalipona ndo maana hiyo story hiko ulimwengu mzima kwenye makabila ya zamani.

Sodoma na Gomora it was just tetemeko la ardhi yanaliyosababishwa na magima kwenye core ya dunia ikisaidiwa na velocano na ndo maana wanasema mungu aliwatupia mapande ya moto na kugeuza ardhi ya bchini kuwa juu. comet ikitua kwenye dunia inageuza ardhi ya juu inakuja chini na ya chini inakuja juu, also this was a passible cause.

Hubble space station imegundua sehemu inayoitwa star formation zone ambako nyota zinakozaliwa, imeweza kugundua pia age ya nyota zote na pia galaxy mpya zinazotengenezwa, imegundua pia jinsi ambavyo nyota zinavyokufa kwa wakati wake au kuuwawa na black hole kabla ya wakati wake, imegundua sayari ambazo ziko mbali sana na galaxy ya milkway kiasi ambacho mwanga wa galaxy ukija kufika duniani unatumia miaka milioni 13.

By the way sasa hivi wanategemea au wameshatuma watu wa kuifanyia upgrade mwaka huu kabla ya kuitelekeza ifikapo mwaka 2013 kwani kutakuwa na space station mpya ambayo itaweza kuona hata shilingi iliyoko kwenye sayari ya galaxy ya mbali zaidi kuliko zote.

Kumbukeni kuwa galileo alitengwa na jamii ikiongozwa na kanisa kwa kusema kuwa dunia inazunguka jua na hakuna mbigu huko juu, lakini miaka karibu 2000 baada ya kifo chake sasa tunasherekea na kumsifia kuwa ni baba wa elimu ya anga.

Jamco,

Kwani galaxy ya mbali kabisa iko umbali gani na ili kuona shilingi unahitaji telescope yenye nguvu gani?